Police chat with Commander Rod Jarman
Senior Metropolitan Police officer, Commander Rod Jarman, stopped by to answer your questions on police work, violent crime and stop and search powers.
**helen**: Hi guys, have you got questions for Rod?
Squeal: Not at the minute, I'm still thinking, although I am very interested in the police so I'm here also to see what others have to ask.
**helen**: Ok cool - well there were some questions on the discussion boards that we can kick off with.
morrocan roll: The Chief Constable for North Wales would like to see the decriminalisation of recreational drugs, along with a growing number of chief police officers, where do you stand on this?
Rod: There are a number of issues involved when dealing with drugs and for me one of the main ones is the research into the links between cannabis use and mental health problems. When there's evidence that something isn't safe then it needs to be considered when talking about legislation. While most of our action should be about educating people about the risks, enforcement is one of the things we still need to do and should carry on doing.
morrocan roll: Isn't it time that the courts gave out harsher sentences for drink related crime? The violence and vandalism now associated with alcohol surely needs to be tackled with more custodial sentences.
Rod: The issues around drinking and violent offences aren't about just introducing harsher sentences or stopping drinking they're about dealing effectively with the people who are misusing alcohol; with people being violent and with people who are being aggressive.
I think sentencing and the criminal justice system are important but another equally important way to deal with problems is by dealing with the issues that lead to people being violent and people misusing alcohol.
Squeal: I have applied to be a special constable and have an interview at some point, as an officer what is your view on those who volunteer to help within the force? Are other constables pleased to have them to work alongside?
Rod: Well Squeal, the first thing I'd say is that I hope you're applying to join the specials in London and we'd really want to support you applying and thinking about joining. Special constables are a really important part of the modern police. They are about the community and the police being close together and they give us as an organisation a really good insight into the needs hopes and aspirations of the people in the communities we police.
Becoming a special constable is also a brilliant way for people to have a look at us and to see what policing is about and to work alongside regular officers. Those people who volunteer to do what is a fantastic job, for which I'm paid, are very special people. We are proud to be associated with those people who volunteer and give up their time and put themselves in harm's way for the benefits of others.
Squeal: Thank you, and I have applied to Lincolnshire Police; London is a little too far away for me.
Rod: Well good luck Squeal and I hope you enjoy yourself. :)
Squeal: Thank you for answering my question. :)
Shyboy: Are PCs told not to smile or accept hospitality, or do they just act frostily/emotionless with people for some unknown reason? In my experience this is not the case so much with senior police staff who will have a laugh and joke while you give them your statements. Should PCs be told to 'lighten up' with Joe public? This may help to polarise them less against local communities where there is a 'them' and 'us' attitude. I think Police Community Support Officers (PCSO) may be going some way towards being the friendly face of the police but normally they just tell you to stop riding bicycles on pavements or something equally patronising.
Rod: Firstly, nobody is told not to smile of not to be friendly but there are issues around accepting hospitality which is probably different from what you're talking about. I think what you're reflecting is the difference between those of us with experience, time and opportunity engaging with people versus many of our officers who are young in service and who are under considerable pressures at work. They don't have the same opportunities to engage in friendly discussions.
I think the majority of our officers are really good and effective at talking to people and making them feel at home and open in a discussion. The memory of the few who are less sympathetic in outlook often overrides the way the majority behave when talking to people. Our officers need to be clear about what they are doing when they are investigating crimes or incidents and they have to be clear when they are giving members of the public directions. I would like to think that in most cases this is done in a positive and friendly way, but I acknowledge that people often are uncomfortable in discussions with the police and sometimes that leads to a degree of distance from both sides - both from the police office and the public. I suppose our job is to bridge that gap with the public and PCSOs in London are part of Safer Neighbourhood Teams whose job is to engage and reassure people by being available for these sorts of conversations.
CptCoathanger: Are there any laws you feel morally at odds with, and if so, which ones and why?
Rod: I don't feel morally at odds with any of the laws, I have a job which allows me to apply the law with discretion according to the situation and I think I'm lucky and pleased to be in a country that democratically decides what the laws are and then allows me as a police officer the opportunity to act with discretion in enforcing those for the good of the community.
CptCoathanger: A very politically safe, stock answer!
J: How do you think policing has changed over the past 15 years?
Rod: There are a number of ways policing has changed. Firstly there have been a huge number of technical advances. In forensics for instance the difference DNA has made to our ability to capture those people who commit rape and murder is massive. Secondly I think policing has become far more open to the public in terms of accountability to communities and our police authority, but also in the way that we release information and talk to people about issues.
"I've been involved in car chases, in arresting people and with people who want to hurt you. Dealing with that has always been exciting."
I could go on for ages, but the other main change has been the introduction of 'safer neighbourhoods' where we have moved policing right back into the heart of communities working with people to solve the issues that cause them most concern. Though doing this we are significantly reducing crime across London.
JsT: Why are the police are so inept at dealing with photographers in public places and why do they seem to have no idea that taking photos in public isn't illegal and doesn't make you a terrorist.
Rod: Obviously you're talking from personal experience and I'm not sure whereabouts in the country you're from, but if you are in London and you're talking about photographing iconic sites, such as Big Ben, then we have particular concerns about the approach that terrorists have taken in terms of preparing to carry out attacks and offences of terrorism.
At the present time the threat in the UK and in London from terrorists is classed as severe which means that an immediate attack is highly likely. We know from our intelligence, and people will have seen from recent trials of people convicted of terrorist offences, that those who are going to carry out these crimes invariably carry what we call hostile reconnaissance during which they will take photographs and make notes of issues that will be used in their actual attacks. Since July 2005 we have been very successful in preventing attacks being carried out and part of our approach is to make it more difficult for the terrorists to operate in the areas that we believe are most at risk. In doing this it's almost inevitable that the majority of times that we take action will involve innocent people going about their normal business, or in this case people wanting to take photographs.
What we would ask, what we need and what London needs is for people to help us make it harder for terrorists by bearing with the intrusion that this activity has on people. We strongly believe that in doing this we are making it harder for terrorists to operate which provides us more opportunities to intervene before they can carry out their crimes. We really do need the people of London to work with us on this, this is a really serious issue, and together we can make London safer.
CptCoathanger: What are your thoughts on racial profiling with regard to stop-and-search powers? Specifically, do you think it's an effective method or a negative and unnecessarily discriminatory one?
Rod: What you're referring to is illegal and is not in any shape of form part of the way we do business. Stop and search powers fall into three categories. The first one requires officers to have reasonable grounds to suspect that a person is committing one of type of crime and the officers can only make the decision to search based upon the behaviour of the people they are going to search.
The second group of powers are for when there is an anticipation of violence and in those circumstances officers are given a very time limited power to search those people who fit the description of the people we believe to be violent.
The third set of powers fall under the terrorism act and these allow the Home Secretary to provide police powers to search anyone in order to prevent acts of terrorism. Obviously I've over-simplified the legal definitions but racial profiling does not come into any of those categories of decision making.
bunnie: What's the most interesting/exciting case you have worked on?
Rod: That's a really difficult question to answer as I've been in the Met 29 years and I've had the most exciting and fantastic set of experiences during that time.
The most rewarding job, apart from what I do now, was as the borough commander at Southwark and that was particularly rewarding because I was able to meet members of the community, victims of crime, people who worked with the police, my own officers and shape the way things were done and see things change fairly quickly. We had a project called Karot which was particularly aimed at giving young people different experiences of life and engaging them positively. Seeing some of the things that young people achieved was really fantastic.
In term of just straight adrenaline as a PC, I've been involved in car chases, in arresting people and with people who want to hurt you. Dealing with that has always been exciting and the memories of working on those cases with a number of colleagues across London will probably fit your definition, but there's too many to talk about tonight.
LuckyStrike: Knife and gun crime, well violent crime in general, seems to get a lot of press these days. Is it down to an increase?
Rod: Violent crime, gun enabled crime and knife enabled crime were all reduced last year on previous years and continue to drop. However, the spate of young people killed last year is something that we take extremely seriously and which we are working to try and understand in detail and deal with. We see issues of youth violence as one of our top priorities, second only to terrorism, and the way forward for us is to work with young people to steer them away from gun and knife crime and the sort of life choices that put them at risk. I suppose the key message I would want to get across is that if you carry a knife you're more at risk of being injured and the way to deal with issues of youth violence and youth crime is for these not to be hidden and to report them to the police so we can work together to deal with those who commit crime and get to the underlying causes of violence.
From our perspective, it's only a very small number of young people who are involved in violence or in crime and it's those crimes which grab the headlines.
Smoothoperator: How closely do you work with MI5, and do they tend to run the show with regards to intelligence for anti-terrorist matters, or is it a case of sharing the load?
Rod: We don't discuss intelligence work so I'm afraid I can't talk about that at all.
Smoothoperator: Mum's the word.
Rod: Thank you all very much and I'll be very happy to deal with further questions at a later date. Thanks for taking the time to ask them.
Squeal: Thank you for your time.
**helen**: Cheers for all your great questions everyone.
Police chat with Commander Rod Jarman
Senior Metropolitan Police officer, Commander Rod Jarman, stopped by to answer your questions on police work, violent crime and stop and search powers.
**helen**: Hi guys, have you got questions for Rod?
Squeal: Not at the minute, I'm still thinking, although I am very interested in the police so I'm here also to see what others have to ask.
**helen**: Ok cool - well there were some questions on the discussion boards that we can kick off with.
morrocan roll: The Chief Constable for North Wales would like to see the decriminalisation of recreational drugs, along with a growing number of chief police officers, where do you stand on this?
Rod: There are a number of issues involved when dealing with drugs and for me one of the main ones is the research into the links between cannabis use and mental health problems. When there's evidence that something isn't safe then it needs to be considered when talking about legislation. While most of our action should be about educating people about the risks, enforcement is one of the things we still need to do and should carry on doing.
morrocan roll: Isn't it time that the courts gave out harsher sentences for drink related crime? The violence and vandalism now associated with alcohol surely needs to be tackled with more custodial sentences.
Rod: The issues around drinking and violent offences aren't about just introducing harsher sentences or stopping drinking they're about dealing effectively with the people who are misusing alcohol; with people being violent and with people who are being aggressive.
I think sentencing and the criminal justice system are important but another equally important way to deal with problems is by dealing with the issues that lead to people being violent and people misusing alcohol.
Squeal: I have applied to be a special constable and have an interview at some point, as an officer what is your view on those who volunteer to help within the force? Are other constables pleased to have them to work alongside?
Rod: Well Squeal, the first thing I'd say is that I hope you're applying to join the specials in London and we'd really want to support you applying and thinking about joining. Special constables are a really important part of the modern police. They are about the community and the police being close together and they give us as an organisation a really good insight into the needs hopes and aspirations of the people in the communities we police.
Becoming a special constable is also a brilliant way for people to have a look at us and to see what policing is about and to work alongside regular officers. Those people who volunteer to do what is a fantastic job, for which I'm paid, are very special people. We are proud to be associated with those people who volunteer and give up their time and put themselves in harm's way for the benefits of others.
Squeal: Thank you, and I have applied to Lincolnshire Police; London is a little too far away for me.
Rod: Well good luck Squeal and I hope you enjoy yourself. :)
Squeal: Thank you for answering my question. :)
Shyboy: Are PCs told not to smile or accept hospitality, or do they just act frostily/emotionless with people for some unknown reason? In my experience this is not the case so much with senior police staff who will have a laugh and joke while you give them your statements. Should PCs be told to 'lighten up' with Joe public? This may help to polarise them less against local communities where there is a 'them' and 'us' attitude. I think Police Community Support Officers (PCSO) may be going some way towards being the friendly face of the police but normally they just tell you to stop riding bicycles on pavements or something equally patronising.
Rod: Firstly, nobody is told not to smile of not to be friendly but there are issues around accepting hospitality which is probably different from what you're talking about. I think what you're reflecting is the difference between those of us with experience, time and opportunity engaging with people versus many of our officers who are young in service and who are under considerable pressures at work. They don't have the same opportunities to engage in friendly discussions.
I think the majority of our officers are really good and effective at talking to people and making them feel at home and open in a discussion. The memory of the few who are less sympathetic in outlook often overrides the way the majority behave when talking to people. Our officers need to be clear about what they are doing when they are investigating crimes or incidents and they have to be clear when they are giving members of the public directions. I would like to think that in most cases this is done in a positive and friendly way, but I acknowledge that people often are uncomfortable in discussions with the police and sometimes that leads to a degree of distance from both sides - both from the police office and the public. I suppose our job is to bridge that gap with the public and PCSOs in London are part of Safer Neighbourhood Teams whose job is to engage and reassure people by being available for these sorts of conversations.
CptCoathanger: Are there any laws you feel morally at odds with, and if so, which ones and why?
Rod: I don't feel morally at odds with any of the laws, I have a job which allows me to apply the law with discretion according to the situation and I think I'm lucky and pleased to be in a country that democratically decides what the laws are and then allows me as a police officer the opportunity to act with discretion in enforcing those for the good of the community.
CptCoathanger: A very politically safe, stock answer!
J: How do you think policing has changed over the past 15 years?
Rod: There are a number of ways policing has changed. Firstly there have been a huge number of technical advances. In forensics for instance the difference DNA has made to our ability to capture those people who commit rape and murder is massive. Secondly I think policing has become far more open to the public in terms of accountability to communities and our police authority, but also in the way that we release information and talk to people about issues.
I could go on for ages, but the other main change has been the introduction of 'safer neighbourhoods' where we have moved policing right back into the heart of communities working with people to solve the issues that cause them most concern. Though doing this we are significantly reducing crime across London.
JsT: Why are the police are so inept at dealing with photographers in public places and why do they seem to have no idea that taking photos in public isn't illegal and doesn't make you a terrorist.
Rod: Obviously you're talking from personal experience and I'm not sure whereabouts in the country you're from, but if you are in London and you're talking about photographing iconic sites, such as Big Ben, then we have particular concerns about the approach that terrorists have taken in terms of preparing to carry out attacks and offences of terrorism.
At the present time the threat in the UK and in London from terrorists is classed as severe which means that an immediate attack is highly likely. We know from our intelligence, and people will have seen from recent trials of people convicted of terrorist offences, that those who are going to carry out these crimes invariably carry what we call hostile reconnaissance during which they will take photographs and make notes of issues that will be used in their actual attacks. Since July 2005 we have been very successful in preventing attacks being carried out and part of our approach is to make it more difficult for the terrorists to operate in the areas that we believe are most at risk. In doing this it's almost inevitable that the majority of times that we take action will involve innocent people going about their normal business, or in this case people wanting to take photographs.
What we would ask, what we need and what London needs is for people to help us make it harder for terrorists by bearing with the intrusion that this activity has on people. We strongly believe that in doing this we are making it harder for terrorists to operate which provides us more opportunities to intervene before they can carry out their crimes. We really do need the people of London to work with us on this, this is a really serious issue, and together we can make London safer.
CptCoathanger: What are your thoughts on racial profiling with regard to stop-and-search powers? Specifically, do you think it's an effective method or a negative and unnecessarily discriminatory one?
Rod: What you're referring to is illegal and is not in any shape of form part of the way we do business. Stop and search powers fall into three categories. The first one requires officers to have reasonable grounds to suspect that a person is committing one of type of crime and the officers can only make the decision to search based upon the behaviour of the people they are going to search.
The second group of powers are for when there is an anticipation of violence and in those circumstances officers are given a very time limited power to search those people who fit the description of the people we believe to be violent.
The third set of powers fall under the terrorism act and these allow the Home Secretary to provide police powers to search anyone in order to prevent acts of terrorism. Obviously I've over-simplified the legal definitions but racial profiling does not come into any of those categories of decision making.
bunnie: What's the most interesting/exciting case you have worked on?
Rod: That's a really difficult question to answer as I've been in the Met 29 years and I've had the most exciting and fantastic set of experiences during that time.
The most rewarding job, apart from what I do now, was as the borough commander at Southwark and that was particularly rewarding because I was able to meet members of the community, victims of crime, people who worked with the police, my own officers and shape the way things were done and see things change fairly quickly. We had a project called Karot which was particularly aimed at giving young people different experiences of life and engaging them positively. Seeing some of the things that young people achieved was really fantastic.
In term of just straight adrenaline as a PC, I've been involved in car chases, in arresting people and with people who want to hurt you. Dealing with that has always been exciting and the memories of working on those cases with a number of colleagues across London will probably fit your definition, but there's too many to talk about tonight.
LuckyStrike: Knife and gun crime, well violent crime in general, seems to get a lot of press these days. Is it down to an increase?
Rod: Violent crime, gun enabled crime and knife enabled crime were all reduced last year on previous years and continue to drop. However, the spate of young people killed last year is something that we take extremely seriously and which we are working to try and understand in detail and deal with. We see issues of youth violence as one of our top priorities, second only to terrorism, and the way forward for us is to work with young people to steer them away from gun and knife crime and the sort of life choices that put them at risk. I suppose the key message I would want to get across is that if you carry a knife you're more at risk of being injured and the way to deal with issues of youth violence and youth crime is for these not to be hidden and to report them to the police so we can work together to deal with those who commit crime and get to the underlying causes of violence.
From our perspective, it's only a very small number of young people who are involved in violence or in crime and it's those crimes which grab the headlines.
Smoothoperator: How closely do you work with MI5, and do they tend to run the show with regards to intelligence for anti-terrorist matters, or is it a case of sharing the load?
Rod: We don't discuss intelligence work so I'm afraid I can't talk about that at all.
Smoothoperator: Mum's the word.
Rod: Thank you all very much and I'll be very happy to deal with further questions at a later date. Thanks for taking the time to ask them.
Squeal: Thank you for your time.
**helen**: Cheers for all your great questions everyone.